Transcript: Episode Six - Designing Effective Online Content Using Massive Open Online Courses
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:15:15
Speaker 1 - Hajira
Welcome to the Medical Genetics and Genomics podcast from the University of Glasgow.
00:00:15:17 - 00:00:34:13
Speaker 1 - Hajira
I'm Hajira, an alumna from the university, and joining me today is Dr. Leah Marks, a Senior Lecturer and Deputy Program Director from the postgraduate program. Leah is also an alumna from the university with a BSc in biochemistry and a PhD. in developmental medicine. Welcome to the podcast, Leah. How are you today?
00:00:34:15 - 00:00:39:04
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
Hello there. Nice to be with you. Yeah. I'm good, thank you. Looking forward to chatting.
00:00:39:06 - 00:00:45:23
Speaker 1 - Hajira
Before we dive into the discussion, Leah, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey in the medical genetics field?
00:00:46:00 - 00:01:08:17
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
Yeah, sure. So I went to university, actually, to study psychology, initially. And I took biology as a third subject, just to fill out my timetable. But I absolutely loved biology, and I ended up pursuing a degree in medical biochemistry instead of psychology. And then after that, I decided I wanted to do further studies.
00:01:08:17 - 00:01:30:21
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
So, I did a PhD. in developmental medicine, looking at the effect, mainly of high altitude, on pregnancies. So, after I had done that, I had actually been working in the Department of Medical Genetics. That's just where my lab group was based. And through that, I got involved in some teaching with the Medical Genetics staff for medical students.
00:01:30:21 - 00:02:01:10
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
And I realised that that's what I loved doing. I realized that I loved working with students at an early point in their career, and teaching. So, when a lecturing post actually came up shortly after I had started my postdoctoral research, I applied for that. And I have been working in medical genetics ever since, teaching students from all over the world at master's level and also teaching medical students, nurses, dentists and a whole lot more.
00:02:01:10 - 00:02:06:10
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
So that's how I got involved in medical genetics.
00:02:06:12 - 00:02:29:22
Speaker 1 - Hajira
That amazing. Leah. I'm aware that you're also involved in developing online learning courses such as MOOCs. Which, for our listeners, are massive open online courses. And in fact, you were an academic lead for the University of Glasgow's first MOOC on “Cancer in the 21st Century”. So, can you talk a little bit more about this and what your motivation was behind creating these MOOCs?
00:02:29:24 - 00:02:36:05
Speaker 1 - Hajira
And this was all before the pandemic as well, when online learning wasn't as prevalent. So, could you shed some light on that?
00:02:36:07 - 00:03:07:04
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
Yeah, that's right. It was. It seems like a long while ago now. It was around 2013 when we first began this journey. I think the aim of universities around that time, and certainly of Glasgow, was to explore the space that was opening up in terms of massive online courses, open online courses. I think there was many different platforms, there was different universities involved, there was different types of courses - lengths of courses. there was a whole lot of different ways of doing things
00:03:07:04 - 00:03:39:19
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
And I think, that, in Glasgow, we wanted to be part of this growing movement - there was a lot of excitement about MOOCs in 2012, 2013, and there's been a lot of talk about how they might revolutionize education. And I think there was also a genuine desire on the part of universities to be altruistic and to allow access to the resources that they had and had, had for years – in a more public and a more open way and to share more content with people to open learning up to a greater variety of people.
00:03:39:21 - 00:04:08:20
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
And I saw the opportunity in Glasgow, and I put in a proposal for a course on cancer, and it was one that was chosen to be developed, I think possibly, partly, because cancer is a topic that is of relevance to most of us at some point in our lives, whether it be personally or through people we know.
00:04:08:20 - 00:04:30:18
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
So, I think it was a topic that was chosen because of its wide implications for people. And it turned out to be a really well received course that we created, and it led on to other things. And the university, since then, has diversified into a multitude of different types of online course
00:04:30:20 - 00:04:34:00
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
But yeah, this was this was where we started.
00:04:34:01 - 00:04:53:23
Speaker 1 - Hajira
That sounds really amazing. Now to explore the relationship of the online learning and traditional models that still exist, how do you think MOOCs fit into the existing educational landscape, and do you think this has had any prominent impact on traditional learning institutions and how have they had an impact?
00:04:54:00 - 00:05:26:05
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
Yes, I think that there's a lot of similarities and a lot of differences between MOOCs and more traditional educational models. I think that with MOOCs and with traditional education, what essentially, you're trying to do as an educator is to enthuse people about your subject. So, you're trying to put across not just your own knowledge in a kind of dry way, but you're genuinely trying to give people an opportunity to get an insight into a particular subject area.
00:05:26:05 - 00:05:56:20
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
And in some ways, the ways of doing that in traditional educational models have been perhaps a bit more didactic. Where there's somebody with more knowledge talks to some people who have perhaps less knowledge in a particular area. And I know that we have changed a lot of the ways that education is done in the past decades, and there's much more emphasis on student-centred and student-based learning and problem solving.
00:05:56:22 - 00:06:21:10
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
And I think that sort of change was carried over into the online space. I think that we realized that student involvement in their own learning was something that had the potential to be very successful. So, I think that has been carried into MOOCs. I think that there's a lot of task-based learning in MOOCs. As well as obviously.
00:06:21:12 - 00:07:06:02
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
Short videos, short learning articles, things like that. I think there's less long, maybe 1-hour, 2-hour lectures in the MOOC environment than there would be in a traditional learning environment where we still have 1- and 2-hour lectures. Although, hopefully, now punctuated by other more interactive tasks. And I think, in turn, that the way we have done learning online and, actually, the way that that's carried on into the pandemic and beyond, I think, some of the lessons we learned from creating MOOCs have been taken very much into the more traditional classroom space.
00:07:06:08 - 00:07:26:24
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
I think the idea that, perhaps, students watch a short video or complete a short task before the main lecture event. I think that's very common now. And I think some of that experience that we gained in the online space has been taken into the classroom.
00:07:27:01 - 00:07:49:00
Speaker 1 - Hajira
Yeah, I definitely agree with that. One of the more common hallmarks of MOOCs is asynchronous learning that just allows participants to learn at their own pace and at their own timings. So, could you share some strategies that you, as a creator of MOOCs, employ to keep these people more motivated and more on track during the course?
00:07:49:02 - 00:08:11:08
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
I think it can definitely be difficult. I think that life happens, and people are in the middle of learning and something happens that distracts them and takes them away. So, I think what you're trying to do all the time as an educator in this area is, I suppose, two things I would say.
00:08:11:08 - 00:08:40:15
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
One of them is to create a community so that you are you're trying to build up a community of learners and of educators so that people feel part of something. And I think when people feel part of something, they're much more likely to maintain a level of interest and to continue through the events that happened, through things that could potentially take them away from the learning, because they feel a draw back to the people.
00:08:40:15 - 00:09:29:07
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
They feel connections with the people that, perhaps, are stronger than the pool of, simply, content. So, I think that one thing you can do is create community. I think another thing that some institutions have used really successfully, and I know we've tried to do to some degree, is the use of storytelling. So, back when the courses we were developing were first being initiated, another university that I was aware of was creating a course in the area of forensics, and they had a really successful plot, almost a CSI-type plot, that people would get the answer to the next part of the question revealed
and, in the subsequent week.
00:09:29:07 - 00:10:01:18
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
And I think it was interesting to see how effective that strategy was. It really pulled people in, in the same way that a television program where you're waiting on the next episode would. I think it really worked well. We tried to replicate it using a story of, a true-life story of a patient, a member of staff actually, in the university who had had experience, in this case, with oral cancer herself, which is quite an unusual story.
00:10:01:18 - 00:10:30:00
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
She was quite young when she developed it. and we had sort of instalments of this girl's story week by week, relating into the diagnosis and the treatment and topics that were the ones we were focusing on in those particular weeks. And I noticed that the girl's story got a lot of comments, and I think was responsible in some ways for, for keeping people engaged with it
00:10:30:00 - 00:10:54:05
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
I think it's all about often that personal connection. So, both community and storytelling do link into the idea of a personal connection. And I think that's very important in education. I think we see that in all aspects of education. And part of my role in life is as a high school teacher of biology, as well as my role in the university.
00:10:54:05 - 00:11:16:05
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
I see that in all aspects of my teaching that a connection with people is what can help enthuse them with their learning and help draw them in and maintain that level of interest. And I think that's what we should try to do in MOOCs and in online learning.
00:11:16:07 - 00:11:37:11
Speaker 1 - Hajira
The participants in MOOCs come from various backgrounds, like educational experiences and cultural differences and, ideally, all of this will impact the way they approach learning and discussions in these online forums and communities that you were mentioning. So how do you foster inclusivity and respect for these different viewpoints on discussion forums?
00:11:37:13 - 00:12:03:22
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
I think an important thing at the start of any course is to, whether it be online or offline, is to make learners aware of your expectations. I found that people coming to these courses, may be just that they are a self-selecting audience, in the main, were extremely supportive of each other and extremely respectful of each other's opinions.
00:12:03:22 - 00:12:27:01
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
We had a statement at the beginning that sort of outlined the type of behaviour we expected. I think, outlining the positive behaviour that you expect rather than simply talking about the negative behaviour that you're going to punish, for example, by removing people from forums or whatever, I think outlining positive behaviours maybe a better strategy.
00:12:27:03 - 00:12:52:05
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
We, it was quite funny, we started off these online courses thinking that we would have to monitor them 24/7 for inappropriate comments and we had a rota of people to monitor all times of the day. But we very quickly realised that they were essentially almost self-monitoring. We still contributed comments and answered questions, which was part of what we were aiming to do anyway.
00:12:52:05 - 00:13:21:24
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
But we really didn't have to police the forums for unwanted comments. In the area of cancer, the type of thing we were most worried about was perhaps people trying to sell treatments with no proven scientific efficacy or that kind of thing, or give strong opinions on people's own experience, or perhaps people revealing details of family members cancers that they shouldn't have been.
00:13:22:01 - 00:13:50:09
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
But actually, that very, very rarely happens. I can only think of a couple of instances. I think there may be some topics in different courses that perhaps are more inflammatory, and I suspect there will be more people with an agenda coming on to them. But as I said, I think it's more self-selecting the type of people that do the courses than maybe just an open social media platform, for example, where people express every opinion under the sun.
00:13:50:11 - 00:14:20:10
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
I never found that we had anything but a pretty supportive community. But I think it's just being aware of the potential for things that can happen in these forums that might upset people, might be inappropriate, and setting out your expectations clearly at the start, having some kind of monitoring policy in place and just responding quickly to anything that happens that isn't appropriate.
00:14:20:10 - 00:14:33:17
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
And I think once people see that you're not going to entertain these types of discussions or unkind comments that generally it fades away if there was any of that to begin with.
00:14:33:19 - 00:14:54:02
Speaker 1 - Hajira
That's really insightful, Leah. A lot of these aspects, you wouldn't think would affect a discussion forum, as someone from the outside. Leah, it can be challenging to create inclusive and authentic content for diverse audiences who have varying digital literacy levels. What strategies do you employ to ensure that your MOOCs cater to these learners?
00:14:54:04 - 00:15:23:11
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
I think that part of the onus for that is actually on the platform provider. So, there's various different platform providers that all the universities use. And, in general, the set up on these platforms is very good for helping people into learning. So, somebody who comes to a course, I have experience of family members who have come to a course with very little experience of using that type of platform.
00:15:23:17 - 00:15:42:1
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
And there is a general introduction and overview on all of the platforms on how to engage with them. So, I think that part of the onus is on the platform to allow people to do that. But I think, as course creators, we have to realize that there are different pathways that people will take through the course.
00:15:42:19 - 00:16:11:01
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
There's different levels of engagement that people will have. There's different abilities that people will have. The same as you would have in any classroom setting. And I think if you bear that in mind, I think you then have the opportunity to create genuine content for people at all different levels. And, I think, in these courses that we have discussed often what is a measure of success?
00:16:11:01 - 00:16:41:03
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
And I think we mustn't look, as a measure of success, that somebody can complete every single stage and submit an assignment or do a test at the end or… I think we need to look at engagement on a person's own terms and a person's own level as a success if they get out of it what they want, whether or not they've fulfilled all of the different objectives that I had at the start of the course. That doesn't really matter.
00:16:41:05 - 00:17:24:24
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
I once heard the analogy that if somebody bought a newspaper and didn't read every single article from the front cover to the back cover, would you, therefore, assume that the newspaper hadn't been worth producing or hadn't been a success because they hadn't read every word? And, of course, that's ludicrous. You know, you would never think that somebody is free to dip in and out of a newspaper as they wish and to get out of it what they want. Whether that be simply the sport or the television schedules or the main headlines. And I think we need to look at online learning, in these contexts, in a similar way.
00:17:24:24 - 00:17:58:15
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
That we need to create high quality content that is accessible to everyone. And that then people can get something out of that, whatever their own level is and whatever. And hopefully we are able to take people beyond what their own expectations might have been for their own learning. And that's a success if we can pull them in further and help them to get something more out of it than they might originally have thought that they would.
00:17:58:17 - 00:18:16:23
Speaker 1 - Hajira
That's a very nice way to look at it and that was a very interesting analogy that you provided. So, it's clear that a lot of consideration goes into designing the MOOCs. So, could you provide some insights into this process of designing the MOOCs and share some key points or best practices?
00:18:17:00 - 00:18:43:01
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
Yes, I think when it comes to designing a MOOC, my approach in everything in life is always to jump in with both feet and just get going. But actually, I think it's important when it comes to any course design, obviously, but possibly, in particular, a MOOC, because it's almost a short package, if you like, I think it's important to take a step back.
00:18:43:03 - 00:19:06:09
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
I think it's important to gather a team around you. This was hugely important in our first MOOC we developed that we had a really strong team of people, quite a small team, but people who had different strengths, and people who had different interests, in particular, in the course.
00:19:06:11 - 00:19:29:18
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
I think you need to, right at the start, think what are your learning outcomes? What is it you want people to get out of this experience? That's really where you start. And from that you go into the process of storyboarding. So, you're planning out your different weeks, you're looking at different types of learning activities, and you're trying to make sure that there are a variety of different activities in every week.
00:19:29:18 - 00:19:55:03
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
And you're achieving the learning outcomes. I think it's important really to play to your team's strengths and that you utilize the things people are best at. It's important to set deadlines. These courses could go on forever and ever, the development of them, because there is always something more you can do to perfect the course.
00:19:55:05 - 00:20:29:08
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
It's never going to be something that is a finished work. And there's always, always more you can do. Attention to detail is really important. It's really important to have somebody on your team who is, for example, a proofreader, and who can really, really pick up on all the little things. Because if you remember that these courses are going out representing our universities and representing the really high-quality research and teaching that goes on at our universities, and we want them to be a reflection of that.
00:20:29:08 - 00:20:50:08
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
So, you need all kinds of people, with all kinds of abilities on these teams. But I think that's the main thing is get a good team around you, think about the learning outcomes and then get storyboarding. The actual recording of videos and writing of articles, to be honest, I found the easy part of the course.
00:20:50:08 - 00:21:14:00
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
Once that was once everything in the background was in place. I think that almost takes care of itself. We had a fabulous media team in Glasgow who recorded our videos for us and put them together. They were - we couldn't have done it without them. But the planning stages are possibly what takes longest.
00:21:14:02 - 00:21:29:02
Speaker 1 - Hajira
MOOCs have potential to democratize education by providing access to high quality learning materials for free and at a reduced cost to the students. So, what do you see as the most significant benefit of this approach to education?
00:21:29:04 - 00:21:54:24
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
I think that for the long term, I think there has to be benefits to both sides. I think, as I mentioned earlier, that sometimes universities really did look on it as simply an altruistic exercise providing this learning free of charge to everybody. And it was almost thought that maybe this could completely change the model of education.
00:21:54:24 - 00:22:25:24
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
I don't think that it will unless there are benefits to both sides. I think for universities, the obvious benefits are, obviously knowledge exchange is a huge one, the sharing of knowledge. But also, as a marketing tool. I think that's - I think we have found that that potential students have gone on to make platforms and have looked to see different courses and then potentially have chosen to come to study with us because of the MOOC content.
00:22:26:01 - 00:23:02:05
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
There obviously is the monetary factor as well. Some courses charge now, and we have experimented with that, ourselves, in various ways. So, I think, to be long term sustainable, there has to be, as with most things, there has to be benefits on both sides. I think, the benefits to individuals outwith university are reasonably obvious in that they have often free access to really high-quality education that is very accessible, inclusive.
00:23:02:07 - 00:23:16:15
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
I think that's a huge thing. I think that's massive. And I think that's really important. But I think we do need to think long term sustainability. There has to be benefits to both sides.
00:23:16:17 - 00:23:31:11
Speaker 1 - Hajira
And you've worked a lot with the University of Glasgow with MOOCs, but I'm aware that you’ve travelled to Australia as well in relation to this. So, could you share your experience and how this influenced your perspective on online learning?
00:23:31:13 - 00:23:58:17
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
Yeah, I was very fortunate to receive funding from ERASMUS to undertake an exchange to the University of Adelaide in Australia to share some of the practice that we had been undertaking. The University of Adelaide, at the time, in 2017, certainly, it was very forward thinking with regards to MOOCs and had produced a lot.
00:23:58:17 - 00:24:28:05
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
They had fabulous facilities available for MOOC production and it was really interesting to see that. But what I went to share with them was our approach, which had been to undertake student-led MOOCs. Whereby medical students, and actually biology students as well, had produced MOOCs as part of their courses for us, and these have actually been some of our most popular courses.
00:24:28:07 - 00:25:05:19
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
And it was all about students as educators and empowering students to be able not just to be passive learners, to sit there and take in information from other people, but actually, to take hold of their own learning by themselves and to produce material for other people that would be useful. And that's been something that has been, something that Glasgow has been innovative in doing and that was the reason that I was able to go and share some of this work and learn from what Adelaide have been doing as well.
00:25:05:21 - 00:25:28:05
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
And so, yeah, I've been fortunate to be able to share this in various places across the world. I think that's a really important part of being an academic, being a teacher, being a researcher, is being able to share practice with others and various places that are that are doing similar things and that will be doing certain aspects better than you and that you can learn from.
00:25:28:07 - 00:25:31:06
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
But also, who can learn from you as well.
00:25:31:08 - 00:25:47:04
Speaker 1 - Hajira
It's nice that you have this vast experience, and you're still pursuing this as a learning experience for yourself and trying to gain more experience from this. So, I'd love to hear something that has left a lasting impact on you.
00:25:47:06 - 00:26:17:10
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
That's a hard one. I think actually the sense of satisfaction that comes when your course is finally complete and finally online the night before it's released. I remember the first course we produced, the night before it was released. It was very exciting, and I couldn't wait to see it actually published. But I think for me, the most rewarding thing is just simply reading the comments and seeing how people have benefited from it.
00:26:17:12 - 00:26:44:07
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
So, I think that every time I see a comment on the boards, the message boards on these platforms, that say somebody has been helped by something we've produced or inspired, or just simply that they've enjoyed it. I always I take great satisfaction and great pleasure from that. That something that we've put a lot of work into has been something that has been useful to other people.
00:26:44:07 - 00:27:19:09
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
I think that's all educators, in any sphere, from the youngest child onwards, that you're educating. I think that's generally what keeps most of us going in the area, it’s something that you're passionate about, that you can see, you get some feedback in some way that you've managed to inspire or enthuse or help, somebody else in a small way, perhaps, to get into or to engage with that particular subject.
00:27:19:11 - 00:27:39:06
Speaker 1 - Hajira
Yeah, well, it must be wonderful to see the impact that you've made on other learners’ lives. With that in mind, I want to ask you what your vision is for the future of online learning and how do you see it evolving and impacting educational institutions and otherwise in the coming years?
00:27:39:06 - 00:28:05:22
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
I feel that with the future, I think we need to increasingly look at what is the need and where is the need. And I think that universities need to attempt to be quite specific in trying to meet the needs that there are. I think, as I mentioned earlier, I think that we need to meet both the needs of learners and of universities.
00:28:05:24 - 00:28:29:16
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
So, I think we need to look at a sustainable future and look to see how can this work and how can it benefit both parties if you like. I think we should also not be afraid of embracing all the new technologies there are. I think we need to continue to develop as we did in the past.
00:28:29:18 - 00:29:05:07
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
With moving away from a more didactic approach to teaching. I think we really need to keep moving with that. Embracing AI, for example, thinking about how we and students might use those new technologies. I think so that we don't become something that’s stuck in the past, but that we become something that can move with the times and that continues to evolve and continues to be useful to people. Which goes back to seeing the point about where is the need and what is the need, and trying to meet that need where we see it.
00:29:05:07 - 00:29:33:10
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
And different people will see needs in different areas, partly dependent on your subject material. But I think if we all look to do that, I think that they can't fail to continue to be useful. I think we need to not get stuck in the past, stuck in the way we've done things before, stuck in the way of looking at how we might have used them or what did work or what didn't work.
00:29:33:12 - 00:29:41:15
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
I think we need to continue to look, to see in the future how might they be useful.
00:29:41:17 - 00:29:59:01
Speaker 1 - Hajira
That's amazing and sounds really promising. Leah like me, you're an alumna from the department as well. So, if we can move away from the MOOCs and talk about your experience as a student and your memorable moments.
00:29:59:03 - 00:30:45:08
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
Yes, I had many memorable moments working as a student in the department. I worked in quite a small laboratory group to start with, but I had a great time. I had a really good experience as a PhD. student. I think my most memorable experience probably comes from the first time I ever collected a placenta. I did my research on fresh placenta that were taken, gained from women who consented to having their placenta to contribute to research. And, I think, standing outside the operating theatre with the expectant father who was waiting nervously in his scrubs to go in, I think waiting, trying to explain why I was standing outside with a bucket waiting to collect the placenta, it made me certainly feel like I was a true hardcore scientific researcher.
00:30:45:08 - 00:31:13:08
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
But also made me feel a bit weird. Also consenting a patient for the first time, trying to explain why I wanted the placenta, I think, was definitely a memorable experience. But, yeah, I've got lots of happy memories from working in the laboratory.
00:31:13:10 - 00:31:35:02
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
My PhD. instructor and supervisor was also a ski instructor. So, we went on a laboratory trip out to the ski slopes, and she taught us to ski. And yeah, we had a really good time in our PhD. lab. So that was, it was a very happy time for me and a time that I learned a lot in the department.
00:31:35:04 - 00:31:46:03
Speaker 1 - Hajira
Sounds really exciting as well. Before we wrap up with this discussion, is there anything else you would like to contribute or any final remarks that you want to make?
00:31:46:05 - 00:32:27:02
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
I think, just to emphasize the importance of never stopping learning, I think, for all of us, whether that be learning through something like a MOOC or an online course or any one of another million different ways that we can learn things. I think that something that I have really tried to embrace during my career and tried to continually remind myself of is that I'm not done with learning just because I've now got my degree or I've got my PhD. or whatever, but, that all of us, there are opportunities to learn right throughout life.
00:32:27:02 - 00:32:59:12
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
And I think that MOOCs are an excellent way to do this, - and I think, they really contribute to this in society. But they're obviously not the only way that we can learn - and I think there's something exciting about being able to continue to learn, and I think it's something that is really good for us. And it's very motivating to know that we're not stuck where we are. That there's much more, there's always much more that we can learn and that we can take on board.
00:32:59:14 - 00:33:11:03
Speaker 1 - Hajira
Well, thank you so much for sharing that experience with us, Leah. It has been an absolute pleasure having you on the podcast and gaining insights into the world of MOOCs and online learning. Thank you.
00:33:11:05 - 00:33:31:17
Speaker 2 - Dr. Leah Marks
Thank you very much. It's been really nice to chat to you.